Sabarimala Reference : Live Updates From Supreme Court 9-Judge Bench [Day 10]

Jaising: i want to make a correction-both petitioners belong to the hindu community.

Jaising: they are telling you that leave it to the society-who is the society- the government of india! the argument is parliament is the will of the people

Jaising: doctrine of hurt operates but it must be legal injury. show me a legal injury and I will not go

J Sundresh: this will lead to dangerous consequences. each one go and say I don't want it in a particular way, it will be a disaster.

J Nagarathna: it will be annihilating religion, which we don't want to be a part of. matters of religion, the court can't be a subject matter of debate

Jaising: can anybody's practice which causes me harm, will that not be?

J Nagarathna: entry is banned for 10 and 50, it is a part of religion

Jaising: they have to show be a theological test that thisi is custom

Jaising: we are discussing the width and breath of article 25(1)-i am claiming a right, irrespective of whether I am a believer or not- i have to go with sharda.

J Amanullah: is it reverance if you are upsetting the people there?

Jaising: when you reading the constitution as organic, articles 13, 14, 15, 16, 21, 25 will come in. in india there was not one revolution but five revolution have taken place-third was undoing touchability. why is article 17 there as self declaratory article? you needed because indian society are structured on caste and patriarcy.

J Amanullah: centuries, certain things which are custom and practice have crystallised and become an essential part-you can't forget history. have so much of passage of time, it has been transporated as basic element. suddently after so many years, somebody comes up

Jaising: there is a qualifier in article 13- custom must have a force of law-if its a voluntary custom

J Amanullah: again a shaky ground

Jaising: if a women doesn't want to go to sabarimala, don't go

Jaising: i agree with learned friends. some senior counsel online said women voluntarily doesn't go, I agree but question is can there be a compulsion on me to not go

if a woman believes lord is naistak bramachariya, don't go. but if there is one woman, then I can't be asked

J Nagarathna: whether custom prevails or one woman's desire

Jaising: its not desire, its a freedom.

Jaising: why was Datar here? he wants to expand the definition of charity. they include the biggest universities of India.

J Amanullah: your target is the custom, according to you custom should not be given the colour of practice

Jaising: yes

J Sundresh: such a right can be traced to article 25(1)

Jaising: it is a preclude to this question. any custom or usage which violates my fundamental right will not get the protection

Jaising: I have not accepted the proposition that I can go there just because I am a believer. Mr Nataraj said conscience is introspective. i need to go with reverance, sharada and not for the purpose of mischief. We go to temples even though we don't completely follow the deity.

J Amanullah: i believe there is no bar in the entry as such. how can there be a straighjacket formula

Jaising: there can be for a hindu for a public place of worship

J Amanullah: worship component is heavy but I can't say i want to go because i want to visit

J Nagarathna: will follower of a deity will question the deity

Jaising: at a level of debate yes. but as a question of fact, it will have to decide. suppose, there is custom and usage that women can't enter-I can file a suit and court can decide on questions of law. that is how religion has reformed

J Nagarathna: that is differrent from court creating a right for me

Jaising: does the constitution of india allows to exclude women? if there is, i will take the judgment and sit down. someone said the world we will watching?what is there to watch? to see that whether supreme court of india will allow women to enter the temple.

Jaising: I have not accepted the proposition that I can go there just because I am a believer. Mr Nataraj said conscience is introspective. i need to go with reverance, sharada and not for the purpose of mischief. We go to temples even though we don't completely follow the deity.

J Amanullah: i believe there is no bar in the entry as such. how can there be a straighjacket formula

Jaising: there can be for a hindu for a public place of worship

J Amanullah: worship component is heavy but I can't say i want to go because i want to visit

J Nagarathna: will follower of a deity will question the deity

Jaising: at a level of debate yes. but as a question of fact, it will have to decide. suppose, there is custom and usage that women can't enter-I can file a suit and court can decide on questions of law. that is how religion has reformed

J Nagarathna: that is differrent from court creating a right for me

Jaising: does the constitution of india allows to exclude women? if there is, i will take the judgment and sit down. someone said the world we will watching?what is there to watch? to see that whether supreme court of india will allow women to enter the temple.

J Bagchi: denominational rights will be eclipsed

Jaising: its the otherway round but I am not claiming to be performed in a certain way. the question is whether you can keep anybody out

J Amanullah: are you in agreement that it can only be enforced by a devotee and not a casual worship

Jaising: i am not in agreement, limitation most of these laws enforce it he must be a hindu. I believe everyone is welcome at the house of god.

J Amanullah: you are entering a specific place, you believe you will get solace. I go there as a believer-how do I get knowledge that deity has a power? I have been told

Jaising: section 92 CPC is there to give cooperate existence to a religious institution. in Ratilal, religious institution was a trust. it is the cooperate entity which holds the land and which is dedicated to the idol.

J Bagchi: they would like us that management of micro level of how prayers are offered, how it is offered and whether certain persons will be permitted-there denomination is at a microgranual level

Jaising: the point is no claim is being made either in a denomination or non denominational institutions- you can't interfere in both-i cant enter a temple and say it has to be performed in a certain way