Dhavan: Today we celebrate Jyotiba and Savitribai Phule-they sought to reform like Dr Ambedkar.

J Nagarathna: are you saying conscience is something larger than religion? conscience should take the colour of religion?

Dhavan:it could or it could not. Now, 'subject to other provisions of this part'-fundamental rightly are normally classified as liberal egaliterian rights which goes from article 14 to 22, then anti-exploitation rights and cultural rights. Take article on untouchability- it stands on a separate footing of its own. in other words no court, no religion can flout the dictat of article 17. Articles 23 and 24 are universal dictats and therefore they stand on a different footing.

J Amanullah: you said freedom of religion and conscience has a very wide proposition. Are you hinting that as judges or as constitutional courts, religion and conscience can't be equated religion may be very personal to be but when I have to judge, I have to raise above the religious consciousness to a level where I have to balance it with constitutional provisions and see the larger picture emerging from that.

Dhavan: your lordships have to interpret consciousness There was a very nasty article written by an english professor 'Why did a Mohammedan Judge decide a Hindu question or a Hindu decide a Mohammeden question'- when your lordships are judges, your lordships have personna of your own.

The reason I mentioned this because freedom of conscience is mentioned separately and therefore two rights there.